As someone who also lived through a staged kidnapping at gunpoint in a youth group, among all of the other batshit evangelical things, the weirdest part to me is how long it took me to realize it wasn't normal. It really wasn't until Jason started talking about it (and CFB Twitter reacted in horror) that I realized how fucked up it all really was back then.
100% this. For me, it is not even the crazy activities that we all grew up in, but even the basic premise that my sneaking Beavis and Butthead is why someone 2,000 years ago was publicly executed.
I just can't bring myself to take my own kids to church because I don't want them having that fear instilled in their psyches.
I had a question about this in my notes that didn't work in organically with the flow of the conversation, but--I've seen Jason note on social media that people's reactions to some of the odd details that had surfaced about Mike Johnson's life since he became Speaker split on those same lines. Either you're shocked (like I was), or you know a bunch of Mike Johnsons and you're completely unsurprised.
Yeah. It's hard for me as someone not of that tradition to talk about their beliefs without seeming totally incredulous, or more disrespectful than I intend. (which is fairly)
I'll have all of you know the book includes somewhere between seven and 75 lines about Christian ska, depending on whether one key character's AIM handle counts as a separate mention each time
This is a great interview, and Jason absolutely gets it when he says that of all the people in this world, Jesus would be hanging with the trans kid dealing with meatheads and not the megachurch pastors.
Can't wait to get my copy, and I have a feeling I'll be buying extras for our youth pastors.
As someone from a very Easter-and-Christmas liberal Lutheran household who went to public school UNTIL transferring to an evangelical Lutheran school (in the right-wing evangelical way not the ELCA way) for HS, so much of my HS was baffling to me until I started to meet people like Jason online in my 20s and 30s who helped me understand it in context. Even though I was never really part of that world, I will defend quite a few 90s Tooth and Nail bands to this day. Plus it's fun blowing people's minds telling them that Sixpence None The Richer was a Christian band.
As for the title of Jason's book, it's brilliant, especially since a lot of understandings of the concept of hell that aren't so literal, hell is (GREATLY paraphrased) simply the absence of God.
The magic of this book is how caring Jason remains toward the people in the culture while also diving into the “cruelty in the name of Jesus” that happens every day. Don’t want to ruin anything in the book, so I’ll share a personal story to try to illustrate. When I was 13, I was a pallbearer for a friend after she committed suicide (because of something church related). When my grandmother saw me a few days later and I seemed down, she asked me why I was sad. When I told her I missed my friend, her exact words were, “You don’t have to worry about her anymore. She’s burning in hell for eternity.” You can imagine what kind of an impression this made on a grieving 13-year old.
What people need to realize is that so many of us were “shown love” in this manner because our elders thought the cruelty was necessary to show how badly we (and everyone else) needed Jesus and most importantly needed Jesus in the exactly specific way our church had decided they did. So when we, as adults who have left the church, seem really upset at bullying or seemingly minor instances of cruelty, things like that are at least partly why.
I grew up in the same local media market as Thomas Road Baptist Church (which in retrospect was reasonably tame and understated as Megachurches go) and yeah about the only thing "outlandish" I could find w/ Gemstones is that some of the family have some sympathetic qualities. I couldn't say the same for the Falwells.
I am also a recovering evangelical kid who grew up in the same community and time as Jason/Isaac. Jason's writings whether in the book or the blog post have helped give voice to things that I have thought since I was back in that environment.
I am working my way through the book probably slower than normal because it is taking time to process everything. It absolutely nails (no pun intended) the culture.
While reading through the book, I have been listening to my own Spotify playlist of all of my Christian music from that era and it is definitely a unique experience.
Some of it does hold up. Although one particular song has caught my attention from one of my favorite bands, Relient K, "Mood Rings". The message of the song basically is that the world would be better if women had mood rings so we could know how they're feeling. It is still catchy as a tune, but don't love the hardwiring of misogyny into however many thousands of early-aughts teenagers.
Another fun game is to see if any of your favorite Christian artists have been involved in endorsing candidates (insert Friends reference of funny ha-ha or funny with a gun to the head). Surely there are those disappointing ones that endorse President Trump wholeheartedly or reluctantly, but it is cool to see those have evolved and speak out. Shoutout to the lead singer of the Supertones. I would be fascinated to see how a personal hero of mine, Rich Mullins, would tackle the current political environment.
I can't speak for the Christian music of the day, but I will say "wow, this is more misogynistic than I remembered" holds pretty true for the secular music of the era, too
I grew up in a weird offshoot of the culture Jason writes about (overseas missionary kids, iykyk) but there was significant overlap. I was delighted to get this book last week, and it truly is fantastic. I also got so angry reading it that at several points I had to put it down and walk away for a bit.
Jason is absolutely right that there is a large part of the political and cultural spectrum of the US that you can't fully grasp unless and until you understand this culture. Also this book is now going to be required reading for any serious relationship (romantic or platonic) I enter into in the future. It explains so much about why I am what I am.
Growing up Catholic in a conservative Christian area was strange like this. I remember going to church with my girlfriend once, and she and others who were involved in youth groups and all of those things were on their phones a lot. I thought, “I thought they were serious about this?” The churchgoing experience was completely different but the guilt and shame for any forbidden action or thought was all the same. There’s so much area to learn to do good from Christian messages, but so much bad that goes along with it. I want to do good because it is good, not because I’m terrified of damnation.
It was on their 3rd album I think. I let my girlfriend at the time borrow my copy of the cd, and she left it in her computer. The cd had some autoplay feature of someone breathing in a hospital oxygen mask and it freaked out her dad. Fun times.
As someone who also lived through a staged kidnapping at gunpoint in a youth group, among all of the other batshit evangelical things, the weirdest part to me is how long it took me to realize it wasn't normal. It really wasn't until Jason started talking about it (and CFB Twitter reacted in horror) that I realized how fucked up it all really was back then.
100% this. For me, it is not even the crazy activities that we all grew up in, but even the basic premise that my sneaking Beavis and Butthead is why someone 2,000 years ago was publicly executed.
I just can't bring myself to take my own kids to church because I don't want them having that fear instilled in their psyches.
The mind bortles.
I enjoyed Jason's book, but man it felt so utterly alien to me. It does explain a fair bit of American politics, though.
I had a question about this in my notes that didn't work in organically with the flow of the conversation, but--I've seen Jason note on social media that people's reactions to some of the odd details that had surfaced about Mike Johnson's life since he became Speaker split on those same lines. Either you're shocked (like I was), or you know a bunch of Mike Johnsons and you're completely unsurprised.
Yeah. It's hard for me as someone not of that tradition to talk about their beliefs without seeming totally incredulous, or more disrespectful than I intend. (which is fairly)
Intend more disrespect imo
"This interview was automatically transcribed from a live video chat conversation . . . ."
THE AI IS COMIN' FOR OUR JOBS PAAAAAAAAAWWWWLLLLLLLL.
Fantastic interview, Scott. I hope a ton of folks read Jason's book. It sounds like an important story, well told.
Ha. I cleaned it up a lot, but I must give a reluctant shout-out to Microsoft Teams, which kept up pretty well. I would’ve missed a lot otherwise.
My only complaint for Jason is a decided lack of Christian ska.
"not enough ska" is a widespread problem in literature IMO
Authors just need to PICK IT UP PICK IT UP PICK IT UP
I'll have all of you know the book includes somewhere between seven and 75 lines about Christian ska, depending on whether one key character's AIM handle counts as a separate mention each time
I only remember a passing reference to the Supertones; guess I'll have to reread it.
A lot of MxPx though (pronounced "MixPix," of course, to show how cool you were by getting the inside reference)
This is a great interview, and Jason absolutely gets it when he says that of all the people in this world, Jesus would be hanging with the trans kid dealing with meatheads and not the megachurch pastors.
Can't wait to get my copy, and I have a feeling I'll be buying extras for our youth pastors.
Just got my copy in the mail this weekend and I can’t wait to start it tonight!
As someone from a very Easter-and-Christmas liberal Lutheran household who went to public school UNTIL transferring to an evangelical Lutheran school (in the right-wing evangelical way not the ELCA way) for HS, so much of my HS was baffling to me until I started to meet people like Jason online in my 20s and 30s who helped me understand it in context. Even though I was never really part of that world, I will defend quite a few 90s Tooth and Nail bands to this day. Plus it's fun blowing people's minds telling them that Sixpence None The Richer was a Christian band.
As for the title of Jason's book, it's brilliant, especially since a lot of understandings of the concept of hell that aren't so literal, hell is (GREATLY paraphrased) simply the absence of God.
The magic of this book is how caring Jason remains toward the people in the culture while also diving into the “cruelty in the name of Jesus” that happens every day. Don’t want to ruin anything in the book, so I’ll share a personal story to try to illustrate. When I was 13, I was a pallbearer for a friend after she committed suicide (because of something church related). When my grandmother saw me a few days later and I seemed down, she asked me why I was sad. When I told her I missed my friend, her exact words were, “You don’t have to worry about her anymore. She’s burning in hell for eternity.” You can imagine what kind of an impression this made on a grieving 13-year old.
What people need to realize is that so many of us were “shown love” in this manner because our elders thought the cruelty was necessary to show how badly we (and everyone else) needed Jesus and most importantly needed Jesus in the exactly specific way our church had decided they did. So when we, as adults who have left the church, seem really upset at bullying or seemingly minor instances of cruelty, things like that are at least partly why.
This book is for anyone who thinks Righteous Gemstones is too far-fetched. They can read this and see it is so much weirder than they portray.
I grew up in the same local media market as Thomas Road Baptist Church (which in retrospect was reasonably tame and understated as Megachurches go) and yeah about the only thing "outlandish" I could find w/ Gemstones is that some of the family have some sympathetic qualities. I couldn't say the same for the Falwells.
Great show that is also 0% a parody
Thanks for the great interview!
I am also a recovering evangelical kid who grew up in the same community and time as Jason/Isaac. Jason's writings whether in the book or the blog post have helped give voice to things that I have thought since I was back in that environment.
I am working my way through the book probably slower than normal because it is taking time to process everything. It absolutely nails (no pun intended) the culture.
While reading through the book, I have been listening to my own Spotify playlist of all of my Christian music from that era and it is definitely a unique experience.
Some of it does hold up. Although one particular song has caught my attention from one of my favorite bands, Relient K, "Mood Rings". The message of the song basically is that the world would be better if women had mood rings so we could know how they're feeling. It is still catchy as a tune, but don't love the hardwiring of misogyny into however many thousands of early-aughts teenagers.
Another fun game is to see if any of your favorite Christian artists have been involved in endorsing candidates (insert Friends reference of funny ha-ha or funny with a gun to the head). Surely there are those disappointing ones that endorse President Trump wholeheartedly or reluctantly, but it is cool to see those have evolved and speak out. Shoutout to the lead singer of the Supertones. I would be fascinated to see how a personal hero of mine, Rich Mullins, would tackle the current political environment.
I can't speak for the Christian music of the day, but I will say "wow, this is more misogynistic than I remembered" holds pretty true for the secular music of the era, too
Absolutely agree. Although my evangelical upbringing would more or less expect that from a secular artist lol.
I grew up in a weird offshoot of the culture Jason writes about (overseas missionary kids, iykyk) but there was significant overlap. I was delighted to get this book last week, and it truly is fantastic. I also got so angry reading it that at several points I had to put it down and walk away for a bit.
Jason is absolutely right that there is a large part of the political and cultural spectrum of the US that you can't fully grasp unless and until you understand this culture. Also this book is now going to be required reading for any serious relationship (romantic or platonic) I enter into in the future. It explains so much about why I am what I am.
Growing up Catholic in a conservative Christian area was strange like this. I remember going to church with my girlfriend once, and she and others who were involved in youth groups and all of those things were on their phones a lot. I thought, “I thought they were serious about this?” The churchgoing experience was completely different but the guilt and shame for any forbidden action or thought was all the same. There’s so much area to learn to do good from Christian messages, but so much bad that goes along with it. I want to do good because it is good, not because I’m terrified of damnation.
I must know what the name of this underoath song is
I double-checked with Jason and it's "A Boy Brushed Red Living in Black and White"
It was on their 3rd album I think. I let my girlfriend at the time borrow my copy of the cd, and she left it in her computer. The cd had some autoplay feature of someone breathing in a hospital oxygen mask and it freaked out her dad. Fun times.
thanks!